A Revolutionary Klansman
Interview with John Baumgardner
QUESTION 1
Please tell us a bit about your background and what
led you to join the Klan?
ANSWER 1
I joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1984. It was one stop in
my search for truth. I have always been a radical. In
the late 1960's I became associated, through a friend,
with members of the Students for a Democratic Society
(SDS) . The SDS was a college campus-based Maoist sect
that was heavily influenced by the communist
Progressive Labor Party. I was not a member of SDS but
I consumed most of their literature and immersed
myself in their philosophy, particularly in opposition
to the war in Vietnam.
Believing there was no solution to be found in the
middle of the road, and not finding the answers I was
looking for in the radical left, I began to migrate
toward the right. As fate would have it, my interest
in history was channeled into an organization called
the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV). This was about
1982. Through that association I met a race-conscious
Christian minister who showed me the connection
between political thought and the Bible. The SCV is a
historical society and I soon became discouraged with
their lack of political activism. I started attending
my minister friend's church and looking for a new
outlet for my radical views. Many of the old- time SCV
members talked favorably of the Reconstruction Era
Klan and the seed was planted in my mind. I began
looking for the Klan. It took me about a year to find
it. After joining the Invisible Empire I gained access
to a wealth of information about the enemies of our
race and way of life.
I became immersed in the Klan, giving it all my time
and energy. Soon I was placed in charge of the state
of Florida and we began to grow. Always maintaining a
revolutionary consciousness, I began to attract people
of like mind. We became the most active Klan in the
country. The Florida Klan was known for taking.
unusual positions and addressing odd issues. We made
it a point to never do what was expected of us.
After the fall of the Invisible Empire in 1993 the
membership diversified and joined with other Klans to
form a cartel. Today there are 22 different Klans in
Florida and we remain a very active state.
QUESTION 2
You lead a radical faction of the Klan called the
Black Knights. How did you develop such a
revolutionary philosophy considering that the Klan has
been known to be quite reactionary at times
(anti-union activities in the 1930's, for example)?
ANSWER 2
First of all, let me make it clear that I do not lead
the Black Knights. The Florida Black Knights have no
officers or leaders. We have applied Louis Beam's
theory of leaderless resistance in our own way. Each
associate is a leader in his own right. We are not an
organization in any traditional sense of the word. We
are an ad hoc collective of Klan expatriates, many of
whom have been rejected from other Klans. I was
banished from the Empire even after I had resigned.
James Farrands, the Empire's Imperial Wizard, told me
I was too revolutionary for the Klan. I now wear that
label as a badge of honor.
I brought my revolutionary philosophy with me to the
Klan and simply applied it to this struggle. It's true
that the Klan has been reactionary and some Klans
continue to be, but the whole truth about the Klan is
not widely known. The Klan in the 1920s was involved,
in some parts of the country, with pro-union
activities. For example, in Williamson County,
Illinois back in 1922, a mixed-race crowd of union
coal miners attacked strike-breakers killing 20 of
them. This incident was called the Herrin Massacre.
Within two years, Herrin and the rest of Williamson
County backed one of the nation's strongest local Klan
organizations. Many in the 1920s and 30s shared joint
Klan-union membership. The United Auto Workers, the
Southern Tenant Farmers Union, and Akron rubber
workers were all examples of unions with Klan support.
The Klan has historically tried to organize colored
divisions. Klan leaders met with Marcus Mosiah Garvey
and gave a monetary gift to Elijah Muhammad and the
Nation of Islam. The Socialist Party and the Klan
formed a 1924 alliance in Milwaukee to elect John
Kleist, a socialist and a klansman, to the Wisconsin
Supreme Court. The Klan has at times appealed to
militant workers.
I believe to be reactionary is fatal to our goals and
I constantly preach against it. I encourage the study
of left-wing and right-wing movements. I say we should
take what we can from every source.
QUESTION 3
You are known for your willingness to work with black
nationalist groups. Please give us an outline of your
history with such groups.
ANSWER 3
It was back in 1985 when I first met Osiris Akkebala,
Chief Elder of the Pan-Afrikan International Movement
(PAIN). Chief Akkebala hosted a radio show in an
all-black community where we had a scheduled
demonstration. PAIN follows a Garvian philosophy, and
understanding that Marcus Garvey had met with the Klan
in the 1920s, Chief Osiris approached me for a private
meeting. We hit it off well and have been good friends
ever since.
Sometime in 1990 we began holding joint
demonstrations--the Klan in their robes and the
Africans in their dashikis. Needless to say it sparked
quite a backlash. Many klansmen were angry at me for
even considering such a thing. In my view it was a
match inspired by God. Why should we have a problem
with black men who are strict racial separatists and
want to establish a homeland on the continent of
Africa? I have even publicly endorsed the payment of
reparations to blacks but only for the purpose of
repatriation back to Africa.
I believe that all people have a right to
self-determination, a right to choose their own
government, and their own religion. Clearly, blacks in
America have not had those opportunities. As Minister
Louis Farrakhan said: "If we can't get along together,
then we need to separate."
I'm a revolutionary white separatist, not a white
supremacist. I don't feel superior to any man because
of the color of my skin but I understand that the
Aryan people (making up only about eight percent of
the world population) must have a separate land
uninfluenced by other races or by the criminal
government that occupies Washington D.C. I'm not naive
enough to believe we can get it without a very bloody
struggle.
More recently, I have established a working
relationship with a faction of the Nation of Islam. We
have held several meetings with representatives of the
Nation and I am learning from them. They have a great
deal of truth. Although I am a Christian and don't
agree with every teaching of Islam or the Nation, I do
respect them and their faith.
QUESTION 4
Other than the black separatists, what other movements
have you reached out to or had talks with. Have you
met with any leftists?
ANSWER 4
We have attempted to reach out to other diverse
movements. While I have not succeeded in pulling a
meeting together with left wingers, I have
participated in long discussions with them at
demonstrations. In these discussions, they have
admitted we have some common ground.
Stetson Kennedy, the famous anti-klan activist,
author, and historian has corresponded with me and we
have talked on the phone. Although I don't agree with
everything he stands for I respect him as a fellow
activist. I believe he feels the same about me. You
see, I'm not threatened by other philosophies and
movements that oppose me. I believe the better cause
will win in the end and so I respect anyone who gives
100 percent to their cause. I don't respect people who
waiver on their beliefs or are frightened to stand up
for anything. In that regard I have even met with
homosexual activists.
I certainly don't agree with the queer lifestyle but
as it turns out, even queers have some common ground
with the Klan. They hate the government as well. They
approached me about it and requested a meeting. All I
can say is when blacks and queers are willing to look
past our differences, sit down with the Klan and
acknowledge common ground against the government, then
the government is in deep shit.
QUESTION 5
In your publication, the Florida Interklan Report, you
speak respectfully of Islam. Do you see Islam as a
potential ally in the coming revolution?
ANSWER 5
Yes. Without question I can see the potential there. I
am working with white separatists in Europe who are
outreaching to Islam there. We are trying to form a
worldwide web against Zionism. We are making some
progress.
I think out relationship should be carefully
approached because the masses, whether they be
Christian or Muslim, are generally reactionary. While
our leaders and leaders in other movements may
understand the alliance, the majority of people on
both sides will not understand. It will take time to
develop a degree of trust on both sides but I think
what we are trying to do scares the hell out of the
Zionist-backed forces of the world, including the
United States government.
Some people question how, if we are all separatists,
we can stand together in peace and on common ground.
well the various separatists don't have a problem with
each other, it's the rest of the world with the
problem. When we stand together and point a collective
finger at the governments of the world, and the
international financial interests, and expose them,
and attack them as one, there is power in that. I will
align with almost anyone who truly understands who the
real enemy is but I will not bend my principles or
beliefs to do it.
We are going to witness a worldwide revolution and if
we are strong enough we can come out of it with power
and a place of our own, if God is with us. Without God
however, we are sure to become the enemy's footstool.
We must be committed to militant Christian action. The
time for talk is over.
QUESTION 6
What do you think of the Unabomber?
ANSWER 6
How did that question get in here? Well, I haven't
read his manifesto so all I have is a media
perspective, which is usually inaccurate.. However, I
think the case in general defines some points totally
unrelated to Theodore Kaczynski's anti-technology
sentiments.
First of all we see that Bob Marley's words ring true
when he sings "only your friend knows your secret, so
only he could reveal it". It's usually those close to
you who give you up.
This case also points to the hypocrisy of the
government and clearly shows how the media is a tool
of the government. The Unabomber killed a handful of
people to make a political statement and he is held up
as Satan incarnate. The government spent millions to
find him (if they have indeed found him). If we truly
place things in perspective, the Unabomber is a very
small problem.
The U.S. government murders thousands of people every
year in covert operations and terrorist activities
around the world. This government brings crack cocaine
into the country to finance foreign revolutions and
distributes it in the major cities to break down
families and maintain a sort of repressed anarchy in
the land. In short, government, through its tool the
media, uses these "high profile" cases to divert
attention away from their own criminal activities.
I really don't care about the Unabomber. I think we
should stay focused on the real problems we are
facing.
QUESTION 7
Many observers--secular and religious--feel that the
year 2000, the new millennium, will usher in an age of
chaos and revolution. Do you believe the millennium
holds special relevance for your struggle?
ANSWER 7
I certainly hope the millennium ushers in an age of
chaos and revolution because I understand that these
things must occur before the cleansing can come. We
are living in an age of chaos right now but many are
shielded from its effects. As time goes by the chaos
will certainly begin to hit home for many who are
currently unaffected. This, in turn, may bring about
revolution on a grand scale. My friend, Bruce Pierce,
says the worse things get the better they look for us.
I concur. And so we don't stand in the way of
race-mixing, homosexuality, or the hedonistic
direction society has taken. Bring it on.
Our enemies definitely place great significance in the
dawn of the new millennium. Because they do, I must
also hold it up as a significant event. I'm not sure
that I would come to the same conclusion on my own
however. There is a new age on the horizon and if we
do the right thing, it may well be our age to shine.
Though this interview was conducted with Mr. Baumgardner almost 4 years ago, the truths and ideas contained within it are still more then just 'valid', they are a way forward for all those who care about their culture and folks best interests. Few are they who are brave enough to admit the truths and step beyond the "right/left" mentallity regardless of others reactions.
To read the sister article with Black Nationalist Osiris Akkebala, please click here
To discuss this article and other issues please visit the Folk And Faith Forum.
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